New Vampire Thoughts

So with a couple of games under my belt and having played good players with competitive lists here is what I have to say on the Vampires (these are my opinions and some may disagreee and maybe im wrong):

Vampire Lord - BEASTS in combat, but very expensive to really make the way you want. With the fact that he is usually 400+ points it makes it hard to fit in a Master Necromancer (more on that in a minute). Red Fury combined with +2 str or +2 attack magic weapons can get bonkers when fighting rank and file troops. I have played him mounted in both games and to be honest I dont think its the way to go, IMHO. I say put him on foot, a ward save, ASF and Red Fury if you like him expensive.

(Suggested Build: Red Fury, Quickblood, HA, GW, Dragonhelm and 5+ Ward = 356 pts)

Master Necro- A MUST in the new Vamps. Lvl 4 is needed for dispel in 8th and to do that on a Vampire is a %$@@ ton of points and waste to me. If you really want to run a Vampire like above it gives you the ability to fit in a Master Necro comfortably. If you run a Vamp Lord I say just give this gave Lvl 4 and Earthing Rod, cheap and gets the job done. With out a Vampire Lord I say run two Master Necro's, one Shadow and one Vampire Lore. Having Mindrazor for Grave Guard w/ HW&S or Ghouls is pretty nasty.

Necromancers- I am so glad these guys are good again. The last book they had their uses for Spaming Invocation but you didnt see them in all tournament lists. I say these guys depend on what your lords are. If you run the Vamp+Master then I would say 1-2 level 2's and if you go 2x Master Necro than take 1-2 lvl 1's. You really just need these guysto throw Invocation each turn. But they also can carry dispel scroll, Ruby ring, power scroll......

Wight King- I still like these guys. Mainly as a BSB, even though there is no Drakenhoff, taking one less wound is still really good. Give him a ward or good armor, a great weapon and through him in with some GG and you are in. You can also give him the Flaming Banner to help when playing against Aboms or other Regen.

Vamp Hero- Havent played with any, but unless you are wanting to run the Black Knight Bus then I dont see what they offer. Maybe ASF with GW in a zombie block, but until I play with them I cant really talk on how they are.

Cairn Wraith / Tomb Banshee Hero- Everyone on the internet has been talking about running these guys in a bunker unit and just owning face! But I dont think you will see too many of these in tournament lists. Maybe in the beginning when people arent too familiar with the book. You only get so many points for Characters and they can fall victim to the fluffed combat or just being blocked by redirectors all game. Could be cool to use and maybe I will play it for giggles but cant see it being a top tier list.

Zombies- These guys have been brought back to the light. So many ways to play them. I have played with 2x 40 and 2x 50 to start, and if it wasnt for not being able to roll more then a 5 for winds of Magic they would have never died. They raise so quick and can tie down those elite combat blocks so that your GG, BK or Vampires can get a hold of them. Characters can join them again, they are back to T3 and can take a Standard and Musician, great for Blood and Glory when its played. For 3 points yeah sign me up.

Skeletons- Not as bad as they used to be. The points drop is huge for them, 5 pts for a T3 guy with a 5+ save and parry is not bad. Good bunkers for mages, but Zombies can do it cheaper and raise quicker. Only one guy in your army can raise them past their starting value and they dont get the extra help that Zombies do with Invocation. If you like Skeletons they can work, just not the best choice.

Ghouls- I have played with them and without, and I can honestly say I missed them when I didnt have them. They wont be fielded in the numbers they once were, but they are still T4, have 2 attacks and poison. The heal just as fast as Skeletons, and I think I would take T4 over a 5+ and Parry. Mindrazor is good on them, and their Initiative is better then most in the book so usually wont be the target of Pit. I say 40 is must in every list.

Dire Wolves- great or getting after warmachines, and blocking charges. I do think that other units in the list can do this better. The big thing for wolves is that they count toward your Core again and you can field units of 20 which could be cool with mounted Vampires in the unit.

Grave Guard - I havent used them in the games I have played, but I will be. They offer the solid combat block I need for the style I play. GW's are still the best choice, but I think with the added benefit of mindrazor they can be great with HW's. Not much has changed, but you dont have the power you used to with Drakenhoff and Helm.

Crypt Horrors- I really thought they would be good, but Im not sold. I used a unit of 9 the other night, and I think 40 ghouls would have done better. The T5 is nice, and Stomp is nice, but dont know. They are almost 400 points for 9 and I can get 40 ghouls who heal faster, maybe I will jut have to use them as unit fillers.

Spirit Hosts- I love these in single base units. They can hunt warmachines, go after Hydras and Aboms (without spikes) and any large monster without MA's and keep them pinned down. Great against Ogres and for 45pts let someone waste magic on them.

Bat Swarms- Havent used them yet, but I think they could have tricks. Making the unit they are touching have ASL is a bug deal. You just have to keep them alive, but if you can combo charge them in with BK's or GG with a Vampire, that is going to make a mess of most units.

Blood Knights- I love Blood Knights but they just arent going to work. On the rare occasion they can win you a game, but just too many points. Anywhere in these review where it shows "BK's" it is refering to Black Knights. I have tried them and I vote to keeping them home.

Cairn Wraiths - Still good, 5 man units will still do what they used to. Kill warmachines, hunt characters in small bunkers, and just like with spirit hosts, tie up monsters and have the punch to hurt them.

Black Coach- I think these are better, you dont loose the dice that you syphon out of your Power Dice pool and it add's a threat and punch that you need with VC. Some people were saying you lost the dice but it is not the case.

Those are my 2 cents so far, chime in if you have some other thoughts or think I am nuts!

I agree with pretty much everything you said. I'm still in love with the vargiests I'm sure i spelt that wrong. The new book has so many threats whent it comes to the fast moving army. I think once people find a way to get your lord in with all your flying units VC will be unstopable. We have a couple of pretty neet lists where working on. So more to come on that.

I deff agree with you and the zombies. Ghould I would still take but not if your going for the flying circuis lists. Great thoughts Joe. Thanks for the insite.

Crypt Horror hordes scare me shitless. That's all I really know. I am liking terrorghiests a ton and if I played vamps, 2 would always be in my list, maybe three.

Crypt Horrors are good in certain situations, but lack the pinch needed to really scare anyone. Terrorgheists are solid I will be testing one out in my next game, don't think two is needed, I would rather have 5 wraiths in the list and 1 Terrorgheist

Anything that gets mauled with one magic missile is bad in my book. They'll do great vs dwarfs and anyone else should be able to deal with them too easily. Skaven, Tomb Kings, Daemons, Warriors, and Dark Elves can toast those bad boys so easily. Bretts can do it too. t3 w/ no save= bad unit IMO even with ethereal.

OTOH Spirit hosts are aweseome.

Well spirit hosts have the same toughness and will die just as easy. So I guess I don't see your argument there. Magic missiles have always hurt Ethereals but I will take 15 str5 attacks all day. And in 8th the winds of magic can easily give up on you, and if your tossing fireballs and magic missiles on them then my grave guard and ghouls aren't taking mind razor to the face...

You will see 2-3 people in the club bringing some pretty dirty vamps at some tournaments ^^

like Scooter said a few people are testing lists (mostly Adam, Kaleb and Scooter) but it's definitely going to kick some asses.

Well my list will get there, being away from the game for two years almost has proved to be a bad idea lol. With the randomness of 8th however I will prefer a grind you out list opposed to could one with a certain combat, charge or magic spell.

Quote :

Master Necro- A MUST in the new Vamps. Lvl 4 is needed for dispel in 8th and to do that on a Vampire is a %$@@ ton of points and waste to me. If you really want to run a Vampire like above it gives you the ability to fit in a Master Necro comfortably. If you run a Vamp Lord I say just give this gave Lvl 4 and Earthing Rod, cheap and gets the job done. With out a Vampire Lord I say run two Master Necro's, one Shadow and one Vampire Lore. Having Mindrazor for Grave Guard w/ HW&S or Ghouls is pretty nasty.

Master Necros don't have access to Lore of Shadow if I remember correctly.

Quote :

Cairn Wraiths - Still good, 5 man units will still do what they used to. Kill warmachines, hunt characters in small bunkers, and just like with spirit hosts, tie up monsters and have the punch to hurt them.

This unit lack to one thing that it had going for it last book. Being skirmishers.. Now its a rank and file unit. Kind of defeats the purpose for WM hunting. Probably better off going with the hexwraiths to get the job done.

Other than that I think you are spot on. Zombie bunkers are back with is nice. I think the n

Good call on the Master Necro, can only have Death and Vampires. Death is not as good but can add some flexability to the list. The Life Leaching lore attribute is nice if you can roll some 5's and 6's. Doom and Darkness never bad, but yeah Shadow is better, but probably never see it with it only being allowed on Vamp Lords and if you take a Vamp lord he has the highest leadership so will have to take Vamp Lore.

I still think Wraiths can be affective, you can always take them in a slimmer frontage and run 3 or 4, 2 wide 2 deep. And they can still be good against RNF troops if you have a unit like the Zombies, Ghouls or GG tie them up first.

JoeNeet wrote:

Well spirit hosts have the same toughness and will die just as easy. So I guess I don't see your argument there. Magic missiles have always hurt Ethereals but I will take 15 str5 attacks all day. And in 8th the winds of magic can easily give up on you, and if your tossing fireballs and magic missiles on them then my grave guard and ghouls aren't taking mind razor to the face...

This is completly true except that for 1 wraith i can get a single spirit host which would be much better.

Yeah sorry Joe I re-read the entry on the black coach and while it says it takes the power it doesn't subtract from the dice in the magic phase. I have 2 painted I might have to try that out again. Trying to work out a list I want to test right now.

Quote :

Good call on the Master Necro, can only have Death and Vampires. Death is not as good but can add some flexability to the list. The Life Leaching lore attribute is nice if you can roll some 5's and 6's. Doom and Darkness never bad, but yeah Shadow is better, but probably never see it with it only being allowed on Vamp Lords and if you take a Vamp lord he has the highest leadership so will have to take Vamp Lore.

Agreed. Although baby vamps can take shadow. Level 2 only though as they are heroes and not lords. Its a good thought but I think it would be to costly points wise to pull it off properly.

Quote :

I still think Wraiths can be affective, you can always take them in a slimmer frontage and run 3 or 4, 2 wide 2 deep. And they can still be good against RNF troops if you have a unit like the Zombies, Ghouls or GG tie them up first.

I was actually getting more at the lack of being able to snake in between units. No you are under wheeling and all the rank and file restriction towards movement. I just see the wraiths as not making out of the charge arc and being either tied up for the game or CR to death. Both ways will end in failure to get to the back and do what they do best. Harass the back board.