For those of you who don't want to buy from GW directly

http://www.maelstromgames.co.uk/index.php

Most of the stuff on here is a decent amount cheaper than GW and from what I've read at a couple other forums they have free shipping to a lot of different countries. I haven't ordered anything yet but i filled out a cart with 2 dragon princes a dragon and swordmasters and it was a $26 difference. Comes out to be about 15% and no tax.

I would hope you would come and support the store if you need anything. Remember if we do not have it on the wall and you order it, you get it at 10% off. Also by supporting the store you play at, you make sure you have a place to play anytime.

Matt is right we need to get stuff at G&S when we can - it sure would be nice if G&S gave us pricing like The War Store though. We all like saving money.


I'd much rather give G&S ALL my hobby money

I agree but its hard to compete with places like the warstore that give you 20% off and free shipping when you order over 75 bucks of stuff.

yuppers - maybe G&S can match the War Store one of these days. We'd all be crazy not to order EVERYTHING from them then.

I agree that saving money is nice but we can't hold meetings at the warstore

Pretty much what Brent said. Until the places I go to game charge to play they've got to receive my business in some way or another.

This is true. But holding meetings and tournaments at any game store is good for business.
If I spend $1,000.00 a year on Warhammer (I spend a lot more than that!) - 20% off is 2 "extra" battalion boxes, whereas 10% is just 1.

I might be a Mormon and not a Jew but I wasn't born yesterday!

Matt how about we buy EVERYTHING from you guys and you match the Warstore pricing? Give it a few months - if it doesn't pan out you can always go back to 10%.

Sorry Lincoln but our markup on GW products is very slim. I do not even get my full discount. Also we could not start giving out 20% off stuff then take it back if it doesn't work out, people would throttle us.
I understand that you want the best price, but the Warstore does not offer you a place to play, lots of terrain, a place to build and paint when you are not at home. I am sure you like their pricing but they are not holding tournaments for you, they are not doing 'Ard Boyz events, they are not coming in early and staying late so you can finish tournament play, putting more money into awards and trophies than what is brought in by tournaments, etc etc etc.
I hope that will change your mind somewhat about this but I understand if it doesn't, just remember we are not GW so we do not have their capitol behind us, and we are not the Warstore, as we do not sell you stuff and then it is up to you where you play. We offer a sales floor and a gaming floor, and that overhead has to be taken care of if we want to keep such a facility open. This isn't mean to be a sermon, just a thought...

I just think you'd get a lot more sales if you reconsidered. Oh well at the end of the day it's your decision.

If they lose money on every sale it's hardly in their benefit to discount the product, regardless of how much they'd sell.

Internet companies don't provide the amenities and community that a B&M store will, and that's worth the 20% difference (most of the time), and those amenities cost the store that extra amount to provide (more or less).

I agree with not buying from online stores. I'm a 17 year old with no job, I barely have enough money to support this hobby, but I still will buy from Games and Stuff just because that's where I go to hang out and game and such. It would be different though if it was run by somebody that a jerk, like somebody I know at another store....... But this place is run by some cool guys. The store relies on people buying stuff from it, so I kind of like to do my part to help them stay in business.

Thanks man, we are glad you come here.

Another way to make more money is to do like we did a GW one tournament winners get giftcards that have to go right back to the store so really all the money from the tournament you will make, thats just a thought.

And I also think that the price of the tournaments could go up. Don't get me wrong 10 bucks is great to play, but if you made it 20 or 25 and put all that money towards prizes that have to be bought from the store I would want to play in the tournaments even more. I like the odds of maybe getting lucky and winning alot of stuff. Just my thought, I really think that would work.

Joko, I'm definitely with you on charging more for the tournaments, in part because I'd almost rather have tournaments of 16ish people rather than 25ish (easier to run and easier to score for a definitive winner). Plus at this point the IC is losing money on every tourney, and it'd be nice to reverse that trend.

15 or 20 may be a good idea, although any more may deter some players that know they won't win from playing in the tournament.

Jonny wrote:

15 or 20 may be a good idea, although any more may deter some players that know they won't win from playing in the tournament.

not if we make it hight stakes

Yeah well its up to you guys but I would totaly be down for a tournament of 20-25 bucks I mean gosh some big tourny's charge 50 and there are huge prizes people come from all over to play if they know there are big prizes. I can help organize something like this just say the word and I can help, I think it would be a great way to bring people to the Games N Stuff store and it can also help the IC out.

For those into that sort of thing, you should come on up to the Big Gunz tournaments they hold up in Pennsylvania. For those who don't have a car / don't want to drive, we carpool up anyways so no worries there.

1st Tournament I went to was $25, prizes were appropriate for that cost
2nd Tournament I went to was $20 if you signed up early, $25 if you signed up late. Prizes were a bunch of nice forge world pieces
Next tournament will be in late February and will be $60 so I can only assume prize support will be even greater.

Only caveat is you need to have a fully painted list, so get to it!

Quote :

Yeah well it’s up to you guys but I would totally be down for a tournament of 20-25 bucks

Incorrect sir this stuff is your say we want your input and as far as I'm concerned your part of the IC just like anyone else.

Quote :

15 or 20 may be a good idea

This is where were going in time, but for right now where doing great. Our next tournaments are 10 and 15 dollars to play in. But they are fully painted fully based. So it balances out a little. And the prizes will be going higher. We will start posting the box prizes ahead of time. And as usual all cash prizes will directly affect how much we make in the tournament.

I've stayed away from this post on purpose I needed to see where everyone stud on this issue before I comment. Some of you won’t like what I say some of you will agree. It goes like this for me. We have been coming to the G@S store for about 4 to 5 months now. At first only on Tuesdays, then Tuesdays and Fridays. Now were hosting tournaments and still showing up Tuesdays and Fridays. We are there allot all things considered. I've looked at the money I've spent at the store in the last 3 months and it's not a joke. Almost 1,000 dollars on gift cards prizes presents (for myself and others). I say this because it is the place I get my stuff at. And they will continue to get my business because I like Matt and ED, they are people you can talk to about the hobby and new product you know nothing about. But that is me. The idea that games and stuff wouldn't make money is probably the most ridiculous thing I've read on this forum.

I spent 1,000 dollars at this store in let’s say 5 months. That means if they gave the discount I would have spent 800 dollars. But by not offering a discount they lose money on all the people I know that order from places that do give a discount. I can only assume that the people that buy of the internet spend at least 500 dollars every 6 months on the hobby, and all of you that are in the hobby know that’s not true you spend allot more then that. So if just one person spends 500 dollars in 6 months at this store they more than make up all the money they would have lost on me. And they gain more of a customer base.
Look I’m not going to tell people how to run there business. All I can say is I know off about 12 people in the inner circle that will not buy from any store cause there is no discount. I just want G&S to be here for the long hull. Matt and ED I buy my stuff from you all no matter what I just want your customer bass to grow; I say this all the time some money is better than no money any day of the week. You know my position on where I buy my stuff from but others don’t do the same.

I probably spend $2-3k a year on Warhammer, maybe more. In the last year I probably spent about $4k ramping up on the hobby. Only thing I have purchased from G&S lately has been soda...

I know this sounds cruel, and it's not meant to be. I just can't give up $800.00 in hobby money when I know I don't have to.

Brent wrote:

Jonny wrote:

15 or 20 may be a good idea, although any more may deter some players that know they won't win from playing in the tournament.

not if we make it hight stakes

Well that would only be for some tournaments. Its fine for a few, for those people that want to do a competitive $25+ tournament, for as I've seen in the tournaments I've helped run, a lot of the people are there just for fun. I don't see people spending $25 to play 3 games that they will probably lose at least two of them.

Jonny wrote:

Brent wrote:

Jonny wrote:

15 or 20 may be a good idea, although any more may deter some players that know they won't win from playing in the tournament.

not if we make it hight stakes

Well that would only be for some tournaments. Its fine for a few, for those people that want to do a competitive $25+ tournament, for as I've seen in the tournaments I've helped run, a lot of the people are there just for fun. I don't see people spending $25 to play 3 games that they will probably lose at least two of them.

I played in three tournaments last year that were $25 bucks and there were tons of people there more then I have every seen at the $10 tournaments so I have to disagree with that.

And scooter I agree with you I don't buy anything from any store because I mean I love going to the stores to play but if I can get stuff for a lot cheaper online why not? And I don't say that to be a jerk either but I look at it like lincoln does, if I can save 20% on stuff that means I can just throw that extra money I would save right back into the hobbey and its like getting it for free

And one other thing I forgot to mention but I would suggest, is that maybe you could offer the 20% discount if people bought $75 bucks or more of stuff. Shoot you could even make it $100 or more. Thats how a place I know does it up in DE and thats the only place my cousins shop from because of the sick discounts.

Tim wrote:

For those into that sort of thing, you should come on up to the Big Gunz tournaments they hold up in Pennsylvania. For those who don't have a car / don't want to drive, we carpool up anyways so no worries there.

1st Tournament I went to was $25, prizes were appropriate for that cost
2nd Tournament I went to was $20 if you signed up early, $25 if you signed up late. Prizes were a bunch of nice forge world pieces
Next tournament will be in late February and will be $60 so I can only assume prize support will be even greater.

Only caveat is you need to have a fully painted list, so get to it!

Yep, for the two day tournament in february, we have about 1500.00 in prizes, a lot of it in Forge World. With more people coming, we also pass out prizes to more people, going down to 3rd place for things like painting, best general, overall.

I am def going to try and be there got to make sure I don't have to much school work to do and I am game!!! I love playing for big prizes!!!

And once again thats what I was talking about if you have a big tournament where its a $50 buy in tons of people will show up and good players too because they know how much is there to win!!! You put that all into the store and there you go money in the bank guys!!!

honestly i buy where it's convient at the time. if i happen to be at the bunker i buy there, if i'm at G&S i buy there. or i'll buy online if i'm home and not in a rush. i do try to be loyal to the store's i visit often. i'll use my budding bretonnian army as an example. i was playing at the bunker, and grabed a peagsus knight and a lord while there. a store i visit often got my money. the green knight i saw online, and knowing it's a specality model i order from GW. i planned on grabbing the book, and a few other things at the bunker, but while at G&S friday they had it so i bought there.....though also finding out the bunker is closeing soon-ish i'd rather support G&S more, so they'll probally be getting more of my business. also though there are some things i've got to get online because the savings are jsut too much to pass down, green stuff and magnets for example. but i do know thats because online doesnt have such a huge frontage expense, driving a truck i get crap like that all the time "i can get these same things at sam's club for 25% less the nfrom you guys" well yea no %$@@, sam's club doesnt deliver though your paying for the convience of having me bring you the product." with G&S yea the price is higher, but and the REAL thing is G&S provides us with a place to hobby, play and hang out. so really to me it's worth paying the little more in most cases. sorry for the rant, got started and kinda couldnt stop lol.

semi-side note. it's still easier to get a PUG (pick up game) over at the bunker, but hopefully with the new club night sechudle, and the knowledge that the bunker wont be around forever, that'll get better.

I haven't heard anything about the bunker closing.

They are changing locations more than likely because their lease is up and they don't want to keep paying so much, not a big deal though there will still be a bunker close

lol does commercial rent get any cheaper than BFE Glen Burnie??

yeah I have no idea but its whatever, if they move somewhere else it better be just as big as the bunker is now or else its going to suck

With corporate moving to memphis they'll be hard pressed to find a better deal that the 'free' space they got at the baymeadow drive location. I wouldn't be surprised to find them pop up in another industrial park somewhere else nearby, but when and how large are other questions. Other managers have said "the replacement store will definitely be open by the time the bunker closes," but I find that hard to believe.

I was following a thread on one of the bigger boards (warseer or dakka), they were looking at a location south of where they are now.

I know there's an empty walmart building in Millersville

joko12 wrote:

yeah I have no idea but its whatever, if they move somewhere else it better be just as big as the bunker is now or else its going to suck

the bunker kinda suck already so frankly i kinda don't care where they put it, i'd rather go and game at G&S

I have been to G&S once so far. I've never bought anything there and have yet to meet there staff or any "regulars".

My son (Smoke'n Boots) and I have been going to the Bunker for about a year now and have come to know the staff. If it turns out that the bunkers new location is not as big, my son and I will likely be going to G&S more often.

We don't spend a lot of money on the hobby, since we have pretty much everything we need. So the most important thing to us is the people. If we can get a pick-up game easier at G&S we would be there. But the bunker is just easier to find a game since we know so many people.

Personally I play for fun and 99% of the time I play with a fluff army. I've never been in the top 5 of any tournament so paying to play them is always a money sink for me. But because my son loves to play in the tourneys we will continue to play in them. And I think it's safe to say that Most people feel the same way about tourneys.

I would like to see G&S grow to be the "regular" place to play. and that just might happen when the bunker moves, for some people. But if you want more people to come to G&S I would just recommend advertising more tournaments there. When people start coming to them, they will buy from them. Convenience is a major factor in purchaseing for tis hobby. And those that aren't worried about convenience are looking at the discount.

An idea... If G&S used some kind of "Membership" for regulars and gave those "Members" a discount? Not saying there should, or shouldn't, be a membership fee. But it's an idea...

i may just not be looking in the right places but are there any plan's in the future for G&S carrying the full line of citadel paints matt? thats one of the biggest "small" things that add's up in price pretty fast. and paints i think are something most would rather buy in person then on-line.

Matt and I have discussed this, given that they carry the full line of P3 and Vallejo paints there's really no reason to carry the GW paints as the P3 formulas are better paints and the Vallejo ones are color matched if you really want the same colors.

I'd like to see the citadel washes up there. For the rest though the vallejo paints are impressive.

Love the dropper bottles too, if I could buy those empty I'd probably put all my citadel stuff in them


edit: hmm... Looks like one day that might happen...
http://cgi.ebay.com/1-2-oz-LDPE-Squeezable-Plastic-Dropper-Bottles-100_W0QQitemZ360226014318QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item53df24c46e

avatar8481 wrote:

Matt and I have discussed this, given that they carry the full line of P3 and Vallejo paints there's really no reason to carry the GW paints as the P3 formulas are better paints and the Vallejo ones are color matched if you really want the same colors.

I the carry Vallejo military colors, Reaper Master series, GW, P3, and Howard Hues. Every time I get in a new paint rack, i sell more paints. Each line has different strengths. Event with quite a few lines, I still sell more GW paints than twice all the others combined. The GW washes and foundation paints are especially good sellers. JMHO

i haven't yet tried the other paints I will thou now that you all bring it up. I do know i love the washes and the bass paints thou

I would appreciate if they carried the washes, as they aren't easy to replicate in the other lines (same as the foundations, but I use those much less). I think in part it's a function of the GW independent retailer 'level' of package, wherein you can't get some products without carrying a much larger selection, though I could be wrong.

I only use GW paints always have for aboout 12 years now

avatar8481 wrote:

I would appreciate if they carried the washes, as they aren't easy to replicate in the other lines (same as the foundations, but I use those much less). I think in part it's a function of the GW independent retailer 'level' of package, wherein you can't get some products without carrying a much larger selection, though I could be wrong.

Nah, paints and washes are basic products. Everyone can get them. Since every gamer wants to open his own store, here's info on buying GW product. There will be a test later.

Basically, there are 5 levels of dealing with GW:

Level 1: No direct account. Store gets models and paints through Alliance, ACD, or other gaming distributor. Discount is about 5% to 10% less than from GW direct. Usually can get most products, (assuming the distributor gets them in, some decide to carry less than the full line.) A few products that are in short supply, (space hulk, fortress of redemption) might only make it in limited supply to these distributors.

Advantage: Can just tack on a few blisters or paints with your regular game order. Can order blisters in 1's. From GW they come 2 at a time, do to packaging.
Disadvantage: Worse discount, no perks from GW.

Level 2: Direct account with GW. Order whatever you want. Pay for exact shipping costs, unless your order is over 400.00, and then it's free.
Advantage: Better discount, better availability.
Disadvantage: No real perks from GW.

Level 3: Stockist. The store agrees to carry a very basic line of products, mostly the best selling plastic kits, and keep 2 each of them. Can order everything.
Advantage: Gets free shipping all the time, no minimum order. Get 150.00 in prize support each quarter. (600.00 a year). Access to bitz ordering. Free racks. Free advertising in WD and on the website.
Disadvantage: Have to carry more GW product. Of course your customers will like this.)

Level 4: Partnership. Same as a stockist. But with more product in the store, gaming areas, run demos, and promote the hobby.
Advantage: Same as stockist, plus get Black Boxes with preview products,
150.00 a month is hobby support. (1800.00 in a year.) And are at the top of the food chain for limited edition items.
Disadvantage: Have to walk the walk and talk the talk. Space for tables, events, demos, and classes aren't always that easy to run, and some stores don't have the time, knowhow, or energy to do all of it.

Level 5: Primarch level Stores. Only rumored to exist, and never more than 20 in number. Some are never talked of, and over half of us have gone over to chaos. Oops, ignore the "us" part.
Advantages: You get a real spacemarine kidney so you can drink more beer, a set of power armor, and you get to go on secret missions with Ed Spettigue to wipe out those pesky xenos.
Disadvantages: Trying to paint miniatures with those fat fingered, power armor, gloves.

...You got bored halfway through writing that didn't you Mike?? Or should I say 80% through

Funny... because I have always been told Retailers get GW product for 40-50% off list price. (This is why other stores can offer as much as 20% off and still make a good profit - they have a larger "purchasing" player base due to their discounting).

Lincoln wrote:

Funny... because I have always been told Retailers get GW product for 40-50% off list price. (This is why other stores can offer as much as 20% off and still make a good profit - they have a larger "purchasing" player base due to their discounting).

GW has one set discount of 45% off. Distributors get it slightly better, by about 2%, but then they are selling it to stores at 35% to 40% off, so the 7%-12% is their profit margin.

15 years ago I got 50% off of GW, the US had a better discount than Europe and UK. Then it went to 45% with 5% wholesale prepay bonus, essentially 47.5% off, and now its longer terms, but no bonus, flat 45% to everyone.

The problem with stores discounting is 20% is actually 44% of the profit margin, so they need to sell nearly twice as much to make up for it. Diminishing returns as you go down. At 30% you have to sell 3x as much, and at 40%, 9x as much. I've seen online places that do that. I make as much selling a landraider as they do on a 500.00 order. At 20%, warstore is at a point where they still make a decent profit, and can offer a good discount. His really big draw though is that Neal gives good service. I think that service is actually more of how Neal competes than discount. It's also how a local store can compete with anyone else, by offering their customers good service.

and by paying the costs to maintain the actual game space that people use, another significant hit to B&M stores ability to offer discounts.

having said that foot traffic and a great discount would eliminate all online ordering elsewhere for those looking for the discount.

This post has really been quite interesting to read. Thanks a bunch Mike for your transparency. Very informative!