Fighty vs. magic?

So I have been looking around on other forums and have seen that there are some real intense conversations about what needs to be done to fix combat lords in fantasy to make them viable. Warriors of Chaos have been a big one especailly since most people apparently just take lvl. 4 wizards and call it a day. What do you guys think needs to be done to make combat lords more viable to take besides making magic weaker?

well as most Druchii players i also use the D-bag unkilly stubborn lord to stall your entire deathstar. WOC combat lord is awesome too. sword of anti heros 1+ rerollable and a 3+ ward is pretty good. same with a empire lord on the altar. vamp lords can be tooled out too. it all depends on the list you run and the point level too.

The thing is not to stop magic just stop what's going to prevent ur army from winning. With woc get into combat fast n stop the 1-2 spells that will cripple u. Then crush em hard. Worry bout wm with a 3+ or just making sure units big enough to get there without taking tomany casaulties

See the thing with WOC is the only uberspells that really really worry them are either final transmutation, curse of the horned rat and dwellers (str 4 warriors base still kills a third of the unit). They don't really worry about any of the initiatve based spells. A level 2 with a dispel scroll will scroll any of the uberspells that will really maul you. Of course they can always get IF but still a level 235837 wizard doesnt help you any more there.

They don't worry bout final transmutation or.dwellers thT much. Bc the oppone.t has.to IF it and they should only have 2 casting phases of it. Life light n shadow have the buffs n debuffs that hurt em. Strgth 4 to tought 8 is hard to kill or even ws5 to ws10 the spells to kill em is phas. Ws10in10. All shadows debuffs period or kindrazor. They need tks remove all remains in play spell lol

Besides making magic weaker I don't really know how to fix combat lords. Put them on something fast and get them and their fast unit into combat with the caster. Make terrain actually block los again so you can put them on something big and killy. Make them cheaper maybe.

Sounds pretty good! I was only using warriors as an example, though i think it would be cool if mark of tzeentch made your chaos lord a level 4 wizard like it used too. but hey we all can dream right! I was just talking in general and wanted to see what you guys thoughts were on a combat lord vs. a magic lord. I mean my army seems to do just fine shutting down magic and giving me time to get in there and crush people and i take a chaos lord and 2 level 2.

......dwarffffffs

ha dwarfs dont count, they get sweet combat lords and dont have to worry about magic all the while shutting down magic phase

Make it so casters can't have magic weapons. right now you can easily give a nice weapon, 4+ ward and still have points left for arcane. In terms of utility they're off the charts, and if they never get into combat are still worth their points.

I'm not in favor of any of that %$@@ of course. L4 general ftw.

I think I agree with Keenan. You need to balance the power of magic vs the builds you can get with your combat lords. If a lord can only get a maximum of 4 or 5 wounds per combat, then the wizard is better and cheaper, and can shut down the opponent's magic, to boot!

Though honestly, if there was anything that made combat lords less desirable, it's likely that only characters can cast magic, whereas every army has good killing units.

Martin wrote:

Make it so casters can't have magic weapons. right now you can easily give a nice weapon, 4+ ward and still have points left for arcane. In terms of utility they're off the charts, and if they never get into combat are still worth their points.

I'm not in favor of any of that %$@@ of course. L4 general ftw.

Lo I dot know what "ftw" means

MaverickKnight wrote:

I think I agree with Keenan. You need to balance the power of magic vs the builds you can get with your combat lords. If a lord can only get a maximum of 4 or 5 wounds per combat, then the wizard is better and cheaper, and can shut down the opponent's magic, to boot!

Though honestly, if there was anything that made combat lords less desirable, it's likely that only characters can cast magic, whereas every army has good killing units.

Well combat lords (least for warriors) are meant to get in to combat a be the anchor for the unit and most importantly to wipe out enemy characters. If you are always guaranteed an extra 4-5 kills in combat that's always really annoying to deal with. Especially against unstable units and daemons. And now with all these unit upgrades the make your champion a character that is difficult to deal with or that unit

MaverickKnight wrote:

I think I agree with Keenan. You need to balance the power of magic vs the builds you can get with your combat lords. If a lord can only get a maximum of 4 or 5 wounds per combat, then the wizard is better and cheaper, and can shut down the opponent's magic, to boot!

Though honestly, if there was anything that made combat lords less desirable, it's likely that only characters can cast magic, whereas every army has good killing units.

Well combat lords (least for warriors) are meant to get in to combat a be the anchor for the unit and most importantly to wipe out enemy characters. If you are always guaranteed an extra 4-5 kills in combat that's always really annoying to deal with. Especially against unstable units and daemons. And now with all these unit upgrades the make your champion a character that is difficult to deal with or that unit of characters.

Damn iPod messed me up!

Ftw means - for the win

I agree with brandon. Clancy's tyrant with 8 str 6 attacks is a boss. How many times have you lost combat by two or three faild your ld test and been run down?

Most armies can take a fighty lord and a cheap lvl 4. Lvl 4s dont need too much in the way of equipment or protection (an earthing rod or some other arcane item is all I usually give mine)

Skaven, greenskins, dark elves, beastmen, empire, bretonnia, and tomb kings can all get fighty lords and a lvl 4 at 2500 points. Warriors and ogres have to pick either or because you cant get a tooled up lvl 4 and a tooled up fighter with 625 to spend.

aroy wrote:

They don't worry bout final transmutation or.dwellers thT much. Bc the oppone.t has.to IF it and they should only have 2 casting phases of it. Life light n shadow have the buffs n debuffs that hurt em. Strgth 4 to tought 8 is hard to kill or even ws5 to ws10 the spells to kill em is phas. Ws10in10. All shadows debuffs period or kindrazor. They need tks remove all remains in play spell lol

Final can kill a third of the unit with each casting on average. I don't know why that wouldnt worry someone. Not saying that I'd rather be shadow hexed then transmuted but it's still something that is pretty easy to cast and is very effective against warriors.

The thing is teres really no way to stop it most of time. They are going to IF it so just don't sweat it. Hope they either dnt get it off or they don't get the spell at all. Its still a chance. Worry about what your army does and how to make it do what you want it to do rather then trying to stop the inevitable.

final is the best killer spell in the game. 18' range on a 15 to cast. 36'/18 for the big version. its the best thing to take out deathstars with characters in it. i run a L4 with an extra spell so i am almost always getting it.